Let's talk now, though, to Sebel Cash, who is here, of course, a man who knows a thing

or two about the European Union.

But just before we speak to Sebil, have a look at this.

Ursula van der Leyen, number 10 yesterday with Starlight.

Thank you very much, Keira. Indeed, it's good to meet a friend again and to be here with you.

We are friends and we are Europeans. We are very like-minded. We share the same interests and the same values.

We face the same challenges, but we are complementary and also in defending our democracies.

Oh, really?

Well, let's see what Sir Bill Cash has to say about that.

Former Conservative MP, former chairman, of course, of the European Scrutiny Committee.

Sir Bill, very good morning to you.

Good morning to you.

Do you, like me, feel slightly uneasy about that conversation you just heard?

I don't feel just uneasy.

I'm absolutely appalled to say that Vondolaen see her actually saying that she and Kirstama have the same views, the same values, is complete nonsense.

This resetting that's going on, as they put it, is a betrayal on a massive scale.

They abolished the European Scrutiny Committee, which was the select committee,

which since 1972, 73, had been running the investigations into European matters as a select committee,

of which I was chairman for 14 years. They abolished that in one line in a five-minute

discussion in the House of Commons. So there is nothing in common between us and the European

Union and Vondelet, what Vondelan is saying.

Well, there isn't in terms of the two nations, or the block of the EU and us and our country,

...