RECAP: Kouri Richins Hearing Day 1
Pretty Lies And Alibis
GiGi McKelvey
4.6 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 7 January 2026
⏱️ 11 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The defense sought to block three of the state’s expert witnesses, focusing heavily on the controversial “Pathway to Violence” model. Defense expert Dr. Fox testified that the model is not scientifically reliable, lacks peer-reviewed validation, has no known error rate, and cannot be used to predict individual acts of violence — arguing that its use amounts to profiling rather than science under Utah Rule of Evidence 702.
The state countered with testimony from Dr. Ammon, who described the model as one of several tools used retrospectively in targeted violence prevention. The judge ultimately issued a partial ruling, limiting how the model may be used at trial.
We also cover:
The judge’s decision allowing a handwriting expert to testify regarding alleged forgery
Why testimony from Dr. Sherry Veneno was ruled not currently relevant — but could be revisited
Why Day 2 of the hearing will not be livestreamed due to sealed evidence
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00:00 – Intro: Pretty Lies & Alibis
00:55 – Overview of Kouri Richins Day 1 evidentiary hearing
01:20 – Day 2 will not be live streamed (sealed evidence)
01:50 – Defense moves to exclude three state experts
02:05 – Defense expert Dr. Fox challenges “Pathway to Violence” model
02:45 – Why the model is not diagnostic or predictive
03:35 – Lack of statistics, probability, or error rate
04:10 – Rule 702: standards for expert testimony
04:45 – Model not peer-reviewed or scientifically validated
05:30 – No standardized methodology; risk of inconsistent conclusions
06:15 – False positives and profiling concerns
06:45 – “Predicting violence after the fact” analogy
07:35 – Model not intended for individual cases like Kouri Richins
08:10 – FBI background and lack of exposure to the model
08:45 – State expert Dr. Ammon testifies in support of the model
09:15 – Judge’s ruling on Dr. Ammon’s testimony
09:50 – Handwriting expert allowed to testify on forgery counts
10:20 – Dr. Sherry Veneno’s testimony deemed not yet relevant
10:55 – Closing thoughts and wrap-up
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to Pretty Lies and Alibis. Let's seek the truth and travel the long road to justice together. |
| 0:09.4 | What you know, alibiers, welcome to another episode of Pretty Lies and Alibis. I'm Gigi. Good to have you here. It's Wednesday, January 7th. |
| 0:18.1 | Corey Richens had day one of this evidentiary hearing today. And before I get started, |
| 0:24.2 | I just want to give you a heads up. The judge said that day two will not be live streamed due to |
| 0:29.5 | the fact it pertains to things that were filed under seal regarding some evidence that they want |
| 0:35.0 | brought in. So we will not have a day two of this hearing. |
| 0:39.4 | Kind of a bummer, but it is what it is. |
| 0:42.2 | Today's issues were essentially the defense wanting to keep out three of the state's experts |
| 0:47.9 | from testifying at Corey's trial, which starts next month. |
| 0:51.3 | They bring in Dr. Fox, who is a defense witness, and she talks about |
| 0:55.5 | the pathway to violence, which is what the state's witness wants to bring in. And we'll get into |
| 1:01.0 | the meaning of this in a second, but Dr. Fox said this is not a reliable scientific method, |
| 1:07.1 | and it shouldn't be brought into trial through the state's expert Dr. Amon. |
| 1:11.6 | The pathway to violence model is a group-based descriptive framework that outlines sequences or |
| 1:18.3 | phases of behavior observed retrospectively, and this is almost exclusively applied to people |
| 1:25.0 | that commit targeted acts of violence such as mass shootings or terrorist attacks. |
| 1:30.3 | It's not a diagnostic tool, and it can't be applied to individual cases. |
| 1:35.3 | Aside from that, it's pure theory with no scientific testing. |
| 1:39.3 | It was created with data and it was developed by people with no scientific training. It wasn't designed |
| 1:45.9 | to predict or diagnose whether a person will commit violence. A predictive risk assessment, |
| 1:51.5 | you want to forecast individual outcomes before they occur. The pathway to violence doesn't tell |
| 1:57.8 | the likelihood that someone will engage in violence, and that is a major |
... |
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