Hey there, it's Shemita. Happy New Year. This week, we're bringing you an episode from our archives. I hope you enjoy.

This is In Conversation from Apple News. I'm Shemita Basseu. Today, a renowned couples therapist on how to figure out what you're actually fighting about.

Esther Perrell is the most well-known couples therapist in the world.

She's written best-selling books about relationships and infidelity.

She's given TED talks with tens of millions of views.

And she has a podcast, Where Should We Begin,

where you get to hear her sitting down with real couples,

helping them work through their issues.

He thinks he's been the one saying to you always,

things will be all right, I'll take care of it.

If you want to bring back the mature adult woman you just met, mediated by the affair,

you need to tell him, let me take care of you.

Yeah, and even if you don't ask, now I have more material to see what's going on.

I can make that step without me waiting for you to ask.

Part of what makes Esther so good, so talented, is that she's got this almost surgical precision in being able to identify what's

really driving a fight.

I'm not so interested in what you're fighting about. Kids, money, sex, in-laws, work.

But I am very interested in what you're fighting for.

And she says what you're fighting for is often not visible.

It's underneath.

I feel like I'm in the sand and I'm digging underneath.

But not just for the sake of digging, but for the sake of change.

...