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Autocracy in America

Reality Reshaped

Autocracy in America

The Atlantic

Politics, Society & Culture, News

4.8 • 999 Ratings

🗓️ 23 January 2026

⏱️ 28 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Joan Brugge has worked for nearly 50 years as a cancer scientist, studying the earliest signs that someone might become sick. Then the Trump administration canceled her lab’s funding. The administration’s attacks on medicine, culture, and education—which include funding cuts and verbal threats—are about more than just budgeting and bravado. Our host, Anne Applebaum, speaks with Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a professor of history and Italian studies at New York University and the author of Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present, who argues that this effort is part of a larger autocratic project to maintain power. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/Listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

I was actually at a breast cancer retreat and I, during the coffee break, I looked at my emails

0:06.4

to see, you know, if I had to, was there anything that I had to deal with?

0:10.5

And I got this email from the university and, you know, it was a real gut punch.

0:15.5

My knees basically buckled and I had to sit down.

0:22.0

I never imagined that it would be possible

0:24.8

that funding for life-saving research

0:27.1

would be terminated for issues

0:29.8

that were totally unrelated to the quality of the work

0:33.2

or the progress that we had made in the work.

0:37.9

From the Atlantic, this is Autocracy in America.

0:41.5

I'm Anne Applebaum.

0:43.4

In this new season, I'm asking how the Trump White House

0:46.7

is rewriting the rules of U.S. politics

0:48.8

and talking to Americans whose lives have been changed as a result.

0:53.3

Today's episode examines the administration's attacks on science, medicine, culture, and education,

1:00.0

a combination of verbal threats and funding cuts that look very much like an attempt to control knowledge.

1:06.0

Maybe there's a broader goal, too, to build distrust and ultimately to reshape all Americans' perceptions of reality.

1:15.1

I know that sounds dramatic, but I spent many years writing about authoritarian regimes, and almost all of them try to undermine admired institutions in order to radically alter the way people think.

1:27.4

Let's start with the attacks on science.

1:30.3

Joan Brugie was stunned when her research became a target.

1:36.8

I've been doing cancer research for almost 50 years now, not just at Harvard.

1:42.1

When I was an undergrad, my sister was diagnosed with a highly

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