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The New Yorker Radio Hour

Rana Ayyub on India’s Crackdown on Muslims

The New Yorker Radio Hour

WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Politics, Arts, News, Wnyc, Books, David, Storytelling, Society & Culture, Yorker, New, Remnick

4.26.2K Ratings

🗓️ 2 December 2019

⏱️ 24 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In August, India suspended the autonomy of the state of Kashmir, putting soldiers in its streets and banning foreign journalists from entering. Dexter Filkins, who was working on a story about Narendra Modi, would not be deterred from going. To evade the ban, he sought the help of an Indian journalist, Rana Ayyub. Ayyub had once gone undercover to reveal the ruling party’s ties to sectarian and extrajudicial violence against the Muslim minority. In a conversation recorded last week, Filkins and Ayyub tell the story of how they got into Kashmir and describe the repression and signs of torture that they observed there. Ayyub’s book “Gujarat Files,” about a massacre of Muslims in Gujarat, has made her a target of Hindu nationalists; one of the book’s translators was killed not long ago. She spoke frankly with Filkins about the emotional toll of living in fear of assassination.

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is a bonus episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour.

0:11.1

Dexter Filkins has spent a lot of time in conflict zones, whether it's the war in Afghanistan,

0:16.4

the American occupation of Iraq, and the uprisings in Syria and Yemen. But one conflict older still

0:23.4

than all of those wars is the trouble in Kashmir, the only Muslim majority state in India.

0:29.6

Dexter traveled to Kashmir earlier this year to observe firsthand a violent crackdown

0:34.5

instigated by the Indian government. And his article, Blood and Soil in Narendra Modi's India, was just published by the New Yorker.

0:42.4

Here's Dexter.

0:44.0

Like so many things in the modern world, the current conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir

0:50.6

dates to the dissolution of the British Empire in 1947. And what happened was,

0:55.6

it's a fascinating story. Generally speaking, the Muslim majority states became Pakistan. The Hindu

1:03.5

majority states became India. Kashmir nestled high up in the Himalayas is split in half,

1:10.6

basically two-thirds to India, one-third to

1:12.6

Pakistan, and it's been that way ever since. And in the beginning, when the Indians wrote the

1:18.5

Constitution, they gave Kashmir a special status, essentially recognizing it as its only

1:26.0

Muslim majority state. And the special provisions in the

1:29.5

Constitution were essentially designed to preserve that character, that special character. And

1:35.5

basically what they did was grant really broad powers of autonomy and self-rule. But since the

1:42.4

very beginning, there was always a strain, a very

1:45.0

powerful strain in Indian politics, and there was always a strain of Indian political leaders

1:49.7

who resented the special status that Kashmir got and resented the fact that what they regarded

1:56.0

as special treatment, favorable treatment for Muslims. And they always vowed that they would change it.

2:01.7

And they never did. They kind of paid lip service to it. They never had the power to do it.

...

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