Much of what we learn about U.S. history — from middle school to high school to, well, most of adulthood, is a myth. Oftentimes these tales leave out important information, sometimes they draw misleading conclusions, and a lot of the time they're simply just made-up stories without any basis in actual history. 

This recognition is also true for much of what we're taught about the American Revolution of 1776. The standard tale is that a handful of so-called "founding fathers" discovered a so-called New World and set forth to establish a nation founded on the ideals of liberty and justice for all. But this is a tale that begins to fall apart pretty quickly once you start to examine it from a materialist perspective — one that starts with actual material conditions and contradictions instead of simply focusing on the ideas of certain thinkers that happen to have made their way onto paper. 

Understanding the true history behind the stories we've been told not only helps to give context to and explain why we are where we are right now, but it also helps us in understanding the roots of our problems, and as we'll see in this Conversation, to understand how deep they run — so that perhaps we can finally cast the false solutionary strategies of incrementalism and mere reform into the dust bin. 

Dr. Gerald Horne is the author of many books, including most recently The Counter-Revolution of 1836: Texas Slavery, Jim Crow and the Roots of U. S. Fascism, as well as, The Counter-Revolution of 1776: Slave Resistance and the Origins of the United States of America — which we'll be focusing on in this Conversation. 

We spoke with Dr. Horne about what traditional versions of the American Revolution of 1776 get wrong — particularly when it comes to enslaved populations and their relationship to colonists at the time. We also explore how the unique phenomenon of the United States' racial capitalist system manifested in the 20th century, and developed into the 21st century — tying the fascist movements and white supremacy of today to the founding of this nation 250 years ago.

Thank you to Bad Brains for the intermission music. Upstream theme music was composed by Robert Raymond.

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