Rhinohorn has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for over a thousand years.

So no medical efficacy.

There's such a strong cultural belief in it that it's hard to weed out.

I mean, I've heard sources liken it to trying to convince an

evangelical Christian that there is no God because there's no scientific proof of

God, you know, like convincing someone based on scientific evidence that rhino horn doesn't work is not going to fly. Hi, I'm Elizabeth Novagratz. This is Species Unite. Today's conversation is with Rachel

Newer. Rachel is a freelance journalist whose work often focuses on wildlife trafficking and poaching

and appears in publications like the New York Times and National Geographic.

She also wrote the book Poached inside the dark world of wildlife trafficking.

Rachel and I met in Brooklyn in January, pre-pandemic times.

And clearly the world has changed quite a bit since then.

And although most of it's been devastating, there have been some silver linings.

One is bans proposed by China and Vietnam to limit consumption of wild animals.

And also because borders have closed, much of the illegal wildlife trade has come to a halt.

But conservation is feared that it's only temporary and that as soon as things are up and running again, the illegal wildlife trade will be too.

But now that the world sees the link between the wildlife trade and global pandemics,

it's one more industry where there's opportunity for massive change. Let's just start with pangolins because I feel like they get a ton of media attention.

They're the world's most trafficked mammal.

Yet so many people I feel like have never even heard of them.

Until now.

Can you just talk about

Pangolins and what they are and give us a little background?

...