Exciting news. Podsave America dropped a bonus episode this weekend featuring an interview

with former president and my old boss, Barack Obama. You don't want to miss this.

Listen to the conversation in Podsave America on Sirius XM or wherever you get your podcasts.

What do you think the pro-democracy forces in this country need to be doing now

that we're not currently doing or maybe not doing well enough?

Well, I think you had it right when you were talking about the obligation to persuade.

There's, you can't content moderate your way out of this problem in social media, right?

You can't say like the problem is the person who created this meme. Well, the person who created

this meme created it and sent it somewhere, seeded it somewhere, but then the reason it became

a problem that you know about is because it was widely circulated by people for whom it resonated.

That is a persuasion problem. And it's kind of an education problem in the sense that people should

hopefully, I think, sort of take on the mantle of education around this issue. I know that

sounds wussy, but like people ought to know that the anti-Semitic stuff that's circulating right now

around Trump's social media presence and pro-Trump's social media presence is not like edgy, modern,

anti-woke, bravery. It's old news. Like, are you seriously trafficking in this old stuff? You

know, you sound like that kind of inoculation, I think, to people so that they don't just get

moved by this stuff uncritically. Is the work of public intellectuals and journalists and activists

and people who have sway in the media landscape where people are otherwise being confronted with

these kinds of messages. I'm John Fabro. Welcome to offline.

Hey everyone, my guest today is Rachel Maddo, longtime anchor at MSNBC. A couple months ago,

Rachel stepped down from her daily show to give herself some time in the spirit of offline,

to unplug. But Rachel is a political junkie just like me, so instead she threw herself into

...