Welcome back to the Ten Blocks podcast. This is your host, Brian Anderson, editor of City Journal.

Coming up on the show today, we have a thoughtful conversation between two distinguished writers talking about race in America.

Howard Hussock, a contributing editor here at City Journal, and vice president of research at the Manhattan Institute,

was joined in the studio by our special guest, author Shelby Steele.

Shelby Steele is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution where he's been since 1994.

He has written widely on race in American society and the effects that modern social programs have had on race relations.

Steele has received the Bradley Prize, the National Humanities Medal, and an Emmy Award in 1991

for his work on the documentary Seven Days in Bensonhurst.

Howard's interview with Shelby Steel begins after this.

We hope you enjoy.

I'm Howard Heuzek, contributing editor to City Journal.

My guest today is Shelby Steele, Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and one of America's most trenchant writers on the subject of race relations and social programs.

He's the Marion and Robert J. Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution.

He received the Bradley Prize for his contributions to the study of race in America. He won the

National Humanities Medal in 2004. In 1991, his work on the documentary Seven Days in Bensonhurst

was recognized with an Emmy Award. So he's a prolific author,

writes often for the Wall Street Journal,

and when he does, I know that I never fail to read closely.

Good to have you with us.

Well, good to be here.

Good to be here.

You think a lot about protest

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