My guest today is Nicquel Terry Ellis. Nicquel is the senior writer for CNN's Race and Equality team. Before that, she was a national correspondent for USA Today covering race inequality and activism. She has also spent six years working in local news with the Detroit News and the Asbury Park Press. I often receive the criticism that I only talk to people like John McWhorter, Sam Harris and Glenn Lowry, who agree with me about the problem of wokeness and the moral panic around racism and white supremacy. However, the people making that charge only see the tip of the iceberg. They don't see the dozens of requests and emails I send to prominent people on the other side of this issue to come on my show, all of which get rejected. Ibram Kendi is the only such attempt that I've made public. Nicquel is really the first mainstream media person, in a long time, that disagrees with me on the race issue but is willing to talk about it. So I'm grateful to her for that. Unfortunately, I did not have that much time with Nicquel but in the future, I hope to go deeper into all of these subjects with people who disagree with me. In this episode, Nicquel and I talk about the biases of the mainstream media, on the topic of race. We talk about racial disparities and the use of force by the police. We also talk about George Floyd, Tony Timpa and Ma'Khia Bryant. Towards the end of the podcast, we go on to discuss whether Black America as a whole is making progress or sliding backwards, and much more. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices