Hey everybody it's Michael Steele here and now I know you're waiting for the next big

episode of the Michael Steele Podcast but in the meantime give a listen to this Michael

Steele Podcast quick take.

My guest and I we were just talking a little bit ago just really excited and honored to

be a part and connected to his history.

You Seth Salam.

He's not just an inspirational speaker but he's a prison abolitionist who at the age

of 14 was one of the five teenage boys wrongly convicted and sentenced to prison in the

central park jogger case.

As you noted in your piece you kind of say you need to understand this is how we're

trapping young, particularly young kids of color in this system in the first instance.

You're just sort of grabbing them off the street and because they fit a general description

and it's downhill from there.

How do you see the system transforming and changing?

Is it through efforts like we see in Illinois where you recognize we just can't we just

can't hook kids up like this anymore.

We just can't think that we can pull them in to put them in the box and start telling

them all this stuff a lot of which if you step back from it conflicts with itself.

Where do you see these reforms going and how does that plow particularly given where

we see legislatures despite what we just saw or heard in Illinois still are taking steps

that make it harder to change the system.

You know so when I look at the system in my experience I would say that we have the

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