if they're trying to do it where they maintain the quality.

That is the baseline.

That's what you're looking for is the quality.

If you do it, you can grow.

There's all kinds of churches that grow once they throw out their quality out the window.

It's a temporary growth.

It's not a long-term growth because there's no quality behind it.

I heard it said one time even dead things will swell for a while.

Everything that's getting bigger is not necessarily alive.

Yeah, exactly right.

Very interesting and it's very true.

And so maybe the question you need to ask is how can you have growth with quality sustainability

where the quality sustains itself.