19 years ago, it's not like today. It's cool now to be gay or curious or whatever it is you are.

But back then it was really shameful.

What you're about to hear is an unscripted one-time couples counseling session.

It contains mature themes and listener discretion is advised.

For the purposes of maintaining confidentiality, names and some identifiable characteristics have been removed.

But their voices and their stories are real.

We've been now 19 years together and I still struggle with saying I'm gay, holding hands in public.

Like it still bothers me.

It's always kind of felt like she's been ashamed of me or our relationship.

This is a couple that is organized around a secret.

You know, my thought was not to get divorced and then the next day I've heard like move into the house.

She said, I don't want to him going out the front door and you're coming in the back.

A secret means I can't talk about this thing.

But then I can't talk about the next thing because it could lead back to this thing.

And so it starts to grow inside a family and it becomes a code of conduct.

I walk on eggshells around her because there's a lot of stations with me.

We have no special relationship at all and have it for a long time.

There's just a lot of resentment and guilt.

Shame and secrecy are among the more corrosive elements of a relationship and of a family.

And it is time for some of the secrecy and some of the silencing to be removed.

This is where should we begin with Asdaire Perral.

I was married and I have two kids and we met 10 plus years into my marriage.

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