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Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fun.org and is distributed by NPR.

It's Bullseye. I'm Jesse Thorne. Making it in the world of punk rock has changed a lot

these days. I mean, like what it takes to be a success. 25 years ago, before SoundCloud and Bandcamp and TikTok and most of social media, you and

some of your buddies from school would start a band. You would practice, you'd maybe record

some songs on a four track at home, possibly put them on MySpace or something, play some

parties, some local shows. Eventually, you'd get in a van and

tour to anywhere that would have you, a house in Dallas, an art gallery in Baltimore, a dive bar

in Fort Wayne, a lot of community centers and Unitarian churches.

You'd sleep on couches, on floors, and cheap hotel rooms, wherever they would have you.

Then you'd get home and you record some more songs, and you'd play some more shows.

Maybe you would like sell burn CDs or cassette tapes at your shows.

Then you'd tour again.

And again. And again, until your band got picked up by a label or you got sick of the whole thing and gave up and decided to finally

finish your teaching credential. My next guests might be one of the last punk bands

to make it the old-fashioned way.

Joining me are Stefan Babcock and Steve Slutkowski.

They're the singer and guitarist for the band Pup. Picked you up, you sat in the backseat, they're getting us clean.

We were only 18 and watched me spill my guts all over the concrete. Pup got together in Toronto about 15 years ago.

The band's name is an acronym standing for pathetic use of potential.

That was what Stefan's grandma said about the band.

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