Pulsifer v. United States
5-4
Prologue Projects
4.5 • 3.7K Ratings
🗓️ 17 February 2026
⏱️ 51 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What does “and” REALLY mean?
If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.
5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com
Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.
Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.quince.com
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | We will hear argument this morning in case 22-340, Pulsiver v. United States. |
| 0:08.2 | Hey, everyone. This is Leon from Prologue Projects. |
| 0:12.1 | On this week's episode of 5 to 4, Peter, Riannon, and Michael are talking about Pulsiver v. United States, |
| 0:18.5 | a case about the First Step Act, a 2018 criminal justice reform package |
| 0:23.3 | passed during Trump's first term. Criminal justice reform is an incredible, beyond bipartisan |
| 0:31.5 | signing. We'll be doing that in just a moment. One of the major reforms of the First Step |
| 0:37.3 | Act addressed the issue of mandatory minimum |
| 0:39.5 | sentences by allowing certain defendants to be sentenced according to points-based federal |
| 0:44.0 | guidelines instead. |
| 0:46.0 | This case, in which a defendant sought to reduce his prison sentence in accordance with the new |
| 0:49.8 | rules, is about how that points-based system works, and when it does and doesn't apply. |
| 0:55.9 | As you'll hear, the case comes down to a question that at first glance seems nonsensical. |
| 1:01.4 | Does and mean and, or does and mean or? |
| 1:05.8 | The court came up with a surprising answer. |
| 1:08.6 | This is 5 to 4, a podcast about how much the Supreme Court and or mandatory minimums |
| 1:14.4 | suck. |
| 1:20.3 | Welcome to 5 to 4, where we dissect and analyze the Supreme Court cases that have left |
| 1:25.3 | our civil rights down bad like a Norwegian biathlete. |
| 1:29.0 | I'm Peter. |
| 1:29.9 | I'm here with Michael. |
| 1:31.1 | Hey, everybody. |
| 1:32.3 | And Riannon. |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Prologue Projects, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Prologue Projects and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.