So I want to ask you a question before we get to any of this like media stuff.

If you had to be a contestant on any reality TV show, what would it be?

The problem is if you write a book about the history of reality TV, you are much less prone to want to be a contestant on any reality television show.

This isn't because I hate reality TV. The book is like, you know, talks about the ugly parts and the

beautiful parts and, you know, the sort of punk creative provocations. But I'm trying to think if

there's any show. You have to choose. I'm not, you got to, there's got to be one.

Real Housewives of the New Yorker.

This is Emily Nussbaum.

Emily is the staff writer at The New Yorker.

And although she may not want to star in reality TV,

she has written one of the most insightful, interesting books on the subject that I've ever read.

It's called Q the Sun.

So would you not, you would not go on Survivor?

I would just be terrible on Survivor.

I'm a weakling.

They cast for resilience, and that is not my strongest quality.

But I think this is probably true of many nonfiction writers.

You know, there are exceptions.

I would not go on Survivor, but I do think Survivor is a fascinating show.

And I'll say up front, when I wrote this book, of course, I knew I was going to write about Survivor.

When it came out, it blew people's minds.

As you know, this podcast is about place.

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