PT549 – Why Did the FDA Reject MDMA-Assisted Therapy for PTSD?, with Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D.
Psychedelics Today
Psychedelics Today, LLC
4.6 • 598 Ratings
🗓️ 20 September 2024
⏱️ 63 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In this episode, Joe interviews Ingmar Gorman, Ph.D.: clinical psychologist and co-founder and CEO of Fluence, a psychedelic education company.
Gorman served as a co-principal investigator and study therapist on MAPS' Phase II and III clinical trials for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, and works with drug sponsors: training, developing the components for clinical trials, and designing therapy manuals. With his insider's perspective, he discusses the reasons why he believes the FDA rejected MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD: from ICER's 2.1 section of the report giving legitimacy to allegations they don't have the authority to research, to Lykos not being able to defend some accusations due to confidentiality, to the damage caused over time (which likely influenced the decision) from attacks against Lykos from dissenters.
He discusses:
- How, despite abuse claims, the main allegations in the report were actually about the mishandling of data or influence of investigators on participants
- The complications of needing to follow study frameworks: Should your adverse experience be in the report if it happened outside the study window?
- How easily opposition can attack and demonize a faceless company, while forgetting the humanity of the people behind it
- Inner healing intelligence and the proposition that people have been indoctrinated into this concept by MAPS
- The need for journalists to research more and not just jump on a narrative
and more!
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hi everybody. Welcome back to Psychedelics today. Joe Moore here. Today on the show, we have Ingmar |
| 0:19.4 | Gorman from Fluence Training. We're |
| 0:22.0 | talking a lot about the MDMA situation with Lycos and some of the kind of efforts and |
| 0:30.5 | confusing conversations going on around the boundaries of that. But I hope you enjoy this one |
| 0:35.9 | and learn some things about, you know, how |
| 0:38.0 | how this whole Light Coast project has gone down and some reasons we need to stay optimistic |
| 0:45.3 | and hopeful and keep helping each other here in the space. So I hope you enjoy this episode |
| 0:50.2 | with Ingmar Gorman and we'll see you on the other side. |
| 0:57.4 | Hi, everybody. Welcome back to psychedelics today. Joe Moore here. Join me in Mark |
| 1:01.6 | Gorman, Ph.D. How are you today? Doing great. Great to be here. Yeah, it's been a while. |
| 1:06.8 | You've been on at least a few times in the past, right? I believe once, and it's been actually quite a long time. |
| 1:29.2 | Wow. I think it was really early on. Yeah. So I'm happy to be back. Yeah, glad to have you back. All of us have been through so much over the last many years here in psychedelia and got a lot to dig into. but I guess first to set the stage for everybody, can you give us a |
| 1:29.8 | little bit of an idea of your background and your work in psychedelics? |
| 1:33.3 | Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a psychologist, a clinical psychologist by training. And I've had an |
| 1:39.4 | interest in psychedelic research and therapy from about 2006. |
| 1:53.1 | And fast forward through my career, as I was finishing up my PhD, my internship, I had an opportunity to begin as a co-principle investigator and study therapist on the phase two and |
| 1:59.9 | phase three studies of |
| 2:00.9 | MAPS's now Lycos's MDMA-assisted psychotherapy trials for PTSD and over the years I also |
| 2:11.2 | created a training company that focuses on training mental health professionals and psychedelic therapy |
| 2:17.1 | psychedelic harm reduction, preparation, |
| 2:19.8 | and called Fluence. |
| 2:21.6 | And we also work with drug sponsors. |
... |
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