PT390 – Mackenzie Amara & Dr. Ido Cohen – Vital Psychedelic Conversations
Psychedelics Today
Psychedelics Today, LLC
4.6 • 598 Ratings
🗓️ 16 February 2023
⏱️ 87 minutes
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Summary
In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna takes the helm for the first time, hosting a conversation with Jungian analyst-in-training, writer, researcher, 5Rhythms® teacher, and Vital student: Mackenzie Amara; and clinical psychologist, long time PT collaborator, and Vital instructor: Dr. Ido Cohen.
As this episode features three huge fans of Jung (Johanna wrote her Master's dissertation on The Red Book and teaches a course through PT), they focus less on education and the future of psychedelic therapy, and instead get pretty deep; shining a light on an integral part of psychedelia (and life) we often avoid: the shadow. What is the shadow and what is true shadow work? What did Jung give us, and why is Jungian psychology so relevant for integrating psychedelic experiences?
They discuss the notion of the unconscious as a place you can develop a relationship with and access by very different means; the idea of the healer as the container; the problematic binary of good vs. evil; the flawed concept of ego death; the differences between authentic and neurotic suffering and personal and collective consciousness; the archetype of the wounded healer and why facilitators should both be wounded and in the process of healing; and how wonderful it is that society is beginning to embrace the weird and what makes us unique.
There are no shortcuts in life and there is no "cure" for the parts of the human condition we aren't comfortable with, but in the capitalist, efficiency-above-all-else West, we aren't raised to sit with the unpleasant, and instead learn to seek a quick fix, which has created an environment where we've lost the ability to feel in the ways that we need to. Can you be with someone else's pain if you're running from your own? Can you have real compassion if you've never suffered? Can you be complete without knowing your shadow?
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | All right. Welcome everyone. This is Vital Conversations and I'm your host today. My name is Johanna Hila and I'm the coordinator of education and training here at Vital. |
| 0:26.1 | And I'm so excited about today's conversation. It's a big passion of mine and it's a rare treat to get to talk to other people who are so excited and enthusiastic about the same subject, |
| 0:40.0 | which is Jungian psychology. So I'm very pleased to introduce to you Ido Cohen and McKenzie, |
| 0:47.3 | Amara. So without further ado, maybe we can just go ahead and get to know each other a little bit better. |
| 0:57.3 | Mackenzie, if you would like to start by introducing yourself, that would be just wonderful. |
| 1:03.4 | Sure. |
| 1:04.6 | Hi, everybody. I'm Mackenzie, Mara. I'm a union analyst in training at the International School of Analytical Psychology in Zurich. |
| 1:13.9 | I'm originally from California by way of Washington and New York and Brazil and Ecuador, living in Switzerland now. |
| 1:25.4 | Before moving here to train as a Jungian, I did my master's in |
| 1:30.5 | clinical and counseling psychology in New York, also a certified five rhythms teacher, and currently |
| 1:37.0 | working on my doctoral dissertation on the use of dreams in psychedelic spaces and integrating |
| 1:43.3 | psychedelics through dreams. |
| 1:47.3 | And yeah, psychedelics are longstanding passion in my life through nefarious channels to begin with. |
| 1:55.8 | It was a dangerous beginning, one that I fortunately got through, but that's kind of how |
| 2:02.2 | I find myself here in the psychedelic space now. I had a rough start and a really beautiful |
| 2:08.8 | learning through that. Thank you so much, Mackenzie. And it's been a pleasure getting to know you |
| 2:16.3 | through this year, as you have been in my study group over this year as you are also a vital student. |
| 2:22.9 | So maybe if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit also how you came to be part of the vital program and how it has been for you. |
| 2:32.5 | Yeah. |
| 2:33.9 | Vital was kind of put on my radar by a colleague at my doctoral program in Saybrook. |
| 2:43.1 | And I had been, yeah, kind of trolling the space looking for what are the avenues to, I guess, legitimize myself and deepen my study that will align me with the right people, the right opportunities, the right education to really do this work as ethically and, like, well-educatedly as possible |
| 3:12.0 | moving forward. |
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