A lot of people with cats and gardens put these wires around the gardens and they put this

collar around a cat's neck. And the cats then wonder around not knowing what's going on,

they get me here to this wire and they get an electric shock. But after about a week or two,

the cats don't go near those wires. And what we've now got in our culture is those wires now

all over the place. So we've all got these little collar around us, you know, electrocuting us.

But the worst thing is we now don't even know where they are.

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantin Kissen.

And this is a show for you, if you want, on his conversation with fascinating people.

Our guest today is a practicing and published psychotherapist Andrew Thomas. Welcome to Trigonometry.

Well, well, thank you. Welcome. Why am I saying welcome to Trigonometry?

You've taken over the space you feel right above. You did salute to the fact that you work with

couples before we started and you said this felt a little bit like it and I did complain there's

not enough sex in this relationship. Well, we can work on that afterwards. We can put a half hour

into that. I absolutely hope so. We need to get more love into this. But look, joking aside,

it's great to have you on. I'll be honest with our audience. We got you on because you've

got in touch with us and you have some very interesting things you wanted to talk to us about

from a psychotherapist perspective, but particularly relevant to the political context.

And one of those things was the idea that people live right and vote left to talk to us about that.

So we have across the Western world now a large part of the middle classes

who the way they live their lives is from my perspective admirable. They're resilient. They take

responsibility for their outcomes in their lives. They work really hard. If they meet obstacles

in their way, they try to overcome them. In fact, they really largely look into themselves

...