So the TRT thing, I think that's cool that you're actually, you know, because a lot of people,

they're sort of like there's like the science, the science side, a lot of times they're really

like myopic about looking at literature. And then the pro science side, they're very myopic

about looking at anecdotal feedback and just like inject yourself with the shit and see what

happens. But it's nice to see somebody like yourself who not only has like the professional credentials,

but also like the social media influence and like being like so open to doing the whole like coinciding like the bros sort of on like my side with like the real literature and like the actual like academics on this side

like actually experimenting with yourself before you start to like put out information

to get like the whole cumulative picture of it so it should be interesting thanks for that

yeah i felt it was important you know i mean all the stuff i talk about uh like ice baths for

instance uh holotropic but tumotite breathing.

I mean, years ago, 2016, I went over to Spain and spent some time with Wim Hof.

It brought him to my lab.

This was long before the social media stuff, you know, that work with David Spiegel's lab,

but hypnosis, if I'm going to work on hormones in the laboratory

and then I'm going to talk about it in terms of potential for public health, I want to have the

experience of knowing what I'm talking about, literally, and the experience of it and also,

and not in any reckless way, but to try and just ground the conversation. I mean, I think that

obviously a formal, rigorous

training and coursework has its value. So does real life experience. I think anyone who says one

or the other is the only way to go is, you know, not thinking about the issue clearly. Now,

people have careers and times and lives that don't allow for exploration of everything

and so ultimately what I'd like to do is serve as a bridge between communities because I do think

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