Well, you've probably heard already what's happening down in Texas.

President Trump has said to the Republican governor down there, Greg Abbott, that he wants five more congressional districts that he knows would be Republican to increase his chances of holding on to the House of Representatives in 2026. Many of us do not wish to see the Republicans hold on to the House in 2026, and we don't like that kind of shenanigans. How the President so unabashedly even says something like that. Well, as you can imagine, there is a pushback happening already. All of us have a responsibility to ourselves, to care about this, and to do what needs to be done, to make sure that those elections in 2026 are totally above board, totally cool, and totally according to constitutional principle. So I asked the wonderful former congressional representative Beto O'Rourke from Texas. He's one of the leaders of the pushback that's going on down there. I asked if he'd come on so that I could interview him. So I'm so glad that he did. We had one technical glit and that's it. You get to see his lovely face, but you won't see mine because we had a glitch. So you'll hear my voice. I think it was a cool conversation. I'm very grateful to Beto for coming on and just the one side of their visually but who cares? On my best. Here it is. Thanks. So Beto O'Rourke, welcome. Thank you for as usual being right out front on things that matter.

Tell people we've already been talking about what the president asked Greg Abbott to do down in Texas. But tell people what exactly happened and why should everybody care no matter what state they live in. So Trump's trying to take five additional congressional seats in Texas. The reason that he's doing it is super important. He understands how deeply unpopular his policies are. The cuts to Medicaid, the Gestapo tactics that are terrorizing our fellow hardworking Americans. This massive transfer of wealth. It's nearly a trillion dollars going from working Americans to the wealthiest 1% in the country. Nobody likes that. And he knows that on this current trajectory, he's going to lose control. The House, if he loses the House, there will be a check on his lawlessness, there will be accountability for his corruption and his crimes. And we will have the hope at least of free and fair elections going forward in America. So he understands that without these five seats, that's his future and he needs to have them. So he's asked Abbott, the Republican legislature in Texas to find them those seats, not making any pretence about the Constitution or whether the districts are drawn fairly, just focused on power, which I think we have to pay attention to because he cares about that to the exclusion of everything else while I think too many of my fellow Democrats care more about being right and coloring within the lines.

Then they care about being in power and being able to help the people who are being hurt by this president. So that's why he's doing it. There's an opportunity though, Maryann, to fight back.

And that involves supporting the Democrats in the Texas State Legislature,

who can leave the state and break quorum and deny their counterparts the numbers necessary to redraw these maps. We can encourage Democrats who hold power in states like California or New Jersey or New York to use that power to redraw their districts to Democratic advantage. And then we can do the work right now to prepare for the possibility that these districts are redrawn in Texas and make sure that we are recruiting and fielding the candidates who can win in them, that we are recruiting the volunteers who can go meet the voters and that if the win does that go back as it was in 2018 during Trump's first midterm that we are prepared to really move with it and win these big elections in Texas. So let's take those one at a time. The first time to do it breaking quorum and what we need from the Texas Democrats in the legislature there. We do explain to us what that what that effort is and what it would take for it to succeed. So the Republicans need their democratic counterparts to be with them in session in Austin, the state legislature to redraw these maps.

If the Democrats don't show up, the Republicans can't convene, will not have a quorum, and won't be able to put these maps into effect. Now, this isn't an easy proposition.

Those legislators who leave even break quorum

will be fined $500 a day for as long as they're gone

and that money cannot be repaid from their campaign accounts. It's a personal fine. I think, Mary, and these legislators make something like $7 to $8,000 a year. So all of them obviously have a, another job or a side hustle or a career. They'll have to leave that as well. They'll have to leave their families. They'll have costs, you know, they're lodging their food. They'll have the state troopers from the Department of Public Safety in Texas hounding them. They'll also likely have the FBI Department of Homeland Security under Donald Trump federal law enforcement also pursuing them. So this is going to be tough, but two things. One, if they can persist and stay away long enough, they can deny Trump the time necessary to redraw these maps in order to have them in place for the 2026 election. And number two, and I think you will really appreciate this, you know, people across the country, they want to see people rise up and fight. And we haven't seen that from so many of our elected Democratic leaders so far. And I understand they're stunned. I understand that many of them just don't know what to do at this moment of truth. But the people want to see us fight. These Texas Democratic legislators could be the fight that America has been waiting for. And this underdog story, these-scrabble, rag-tag bunch of Democrats in Texas going up against the most powerful man in the world who's supported by the richest people on the planet. That's what America needs to see right now. I think it will inspire hope and action from others across the country. I want to ask you, I've you say here, and I've heard you say on other interviews.

Trump doesn't wanna just stop with Texas,

but when I hear he wants Mike to want to do the same thing in Ohio, correct? That's right. That's right. So I've heard you say we need Pritzker, no one to do it, we need Gavin to do it in California, et cetera. What is your response to those who say,

wait a minute, if they're doing it,

that doesn't mean it's right for us to do it. California, et cetera. What is your response to those who say, wait a minute.

If they're doing it, that doesn't mean it's right for us to do it. I agree with you. We're past a threat to democracy. We're in a full-on attack on democracy. I don't disagree with that. So I think I know your answer, but I think it's an important thing to face. What do you say to people who say, wait a minute? It's not right for us to do it either.

I'd ask them to think about it through a metaphor

that I think is really helpful. think it's an important thing to face. What do you say to people who say, wait a minute, it's not right for us to do it either.

I'd ask them to think about it through a metaphor that I think is really helpful. Imagine we're playing a basketball game. And for most of the game, the refs have been calling the fouls and folks have had to sit out if they commit to many fouls or the other side gets free throw shots. the reps are now out of the game. And the other team is just squarely punching us in the face,

disobeying all the game. And the other team is just squarely punching us

in the face, disobeying all the rules.

We kind of throw up our hands,

we ask the reps to intervene, they're not coming,

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