Well, welcome to the Kato podcast once again.

I am Patrick Eddington, senior fellow here at the Kato Institute.

I'm David Beer, Director of Immigration Studies at the Kato Institute,

and also occupying the Sells Foundation Chair in Immigration Policy at the Cato Institute.

And it will probably come as no shock to you that our topic today is immigration, and specifically immigration enforcement.

David is one of our two leads on this.

I tend to handle a lot of the violence aspect of this in my capacity as the Homeland Security and Civil Liberties guy.

I think, you know, one of the things that would probably be good maybe at the outset, David, is for you to kind of set the table and give us kind of a comparison of Trump 1.0

versus Trump 2.0. You know, what are, what do you see as like the key differences between

essentially his two terms in office, bearing in mind that he's had one full term and we're only

eight months, you know, into the new one.

So yeah, obviously much more aggressive. All of the same directions and tendencies were there with

Trump 1.0, but at a level that is, you know, just indescribably different now than it was then.

So when you go through the blueprint for mass deportation,

which is what this is all about, this is about indiscriminately removing as many people,

non-citizens from the United States as possible, if you look at what that blueprint involves, the first step of it is removing people's

legal status, legal protection, any kind of rights they have under the law, citizenship,

even for U.S. born children, denaturalizing people is also part of this, you have that as sort of the first step.

Stage one is take away their right to be here. And then stage two is equally important.

So once you've deprived people of that ability to stay, then the second stage is, how are we

going to find them? How are we going to identify them?

And the biggest difference between 1.0 and 2.0 Trump is in this second stage where they have

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