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Very pleased to be joined on the warning by Justin Elliott of ProPublica, the investigative,

nonprofit, journalistic, digital. What is it? What is the best way to describe ProPublica? It's a nonprofit investigative news

organization. You know, we publish on our website, but then we also are, almost all of our

stories are under Creative Commons license. So often my stories will be republished in newspapers

around the country and sometimes with radio and TV as well. But yeah,

nonprofit news organization. And you're not corporately owned? Nope. 501c3 nonprofit. We,

we disclose our donors. You can look them up on our 990. Foundation, small donors,

wealthy people. Right. So it's as transparent as it gets. And there's a

concept that undergirds the journalism at ProPublica, the public interest, the public good.

Can you just talk about that for a concept or as a concept for a minute? When you sit around,

you have meetings among the reporters,

among the editors at ProPublica, the concept of the public good comes up how.

Yeah, I mean, it sort of goes back to our founding.

I've been there since 2012, but we started around 2007, and we were founded by Paul Steiger, who had been the managing editor

of the Wall Street Journal for many years. And in the context of the kind of mid to late aughts,

that was when the newspaper business model was really starting to be destroyed by the internet

and investigative reporter jobs at newspapers

were often the first jobs being cut because people that do this kind of work are not writing

stories to put in the paper every day because the work takes time. And so Paul and the other

...