Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps

it. It's a long time ago, right? It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream

van plays music when it's out of ice cream. Listen to evil genius on BBC sounds. Thanks for downloading

the BBC Arts and Ideas podcast. The conversation you're about to hear picks up on themes inspired by the summer's BBC proms concerts.

If you're moved to listen to the music, you can find every concert broadcast on Radio 3 and BBC Sounds.

Now over to the audience in the Imperial College Theatre next to the Royal Albert Hall.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

I'm Lisa Mullan and this is Prom's Plus.

The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of many things, of shoes and ships and sealing

wax of cabbages and kings.

But what do children really want to talk about and are we ready to hear it?

That's what we're discussing ahead of Marla's fourth symphony,

with its themes of childish joy in innocence laced with darkness and death.

Disappearing down the rabbit hole with us tonight

are two guests, adults there they are, who both have fascinating views on childhood, and how reading

and books shape our ideas about it. Emma Butcher is a new generation thinker who specialises

in the history of war and childhood, particularly in the 19th century.

And Patrice Lawrence is an award-winning writer of young adult fiction, including titles such as

Orange Boy, Indigo Donut, and Rose Interrupted. And she's also contributed a story to the new

Mallory Towers series. So I'd like to start by asking you both, which authors you read yourselves as children. So, Patrice, did

Inid Blyton's boarding school stories do it for you when you're a kid? I didn't read the boarding

school stories, but I think I was more famous five and Secret Seven and the wishing chair. And I just

...