Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps that it's a long time ago, right?

It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream van plays music when it's out of ice cream.

Listen to Evil Genius on BBC Sounds.

This is the BBC.

I'm Rhonda Mitter. Thank you for downloading this podcast from BBC Radio 3's

Proms Extra.

Hello, tonight we need your full and rapt attention because we're talking about dozing off

and what to do when you can't.

We're on the topic of insomnia, and that terrible feeling you can get at 3 o'clock in the morning

when you can't get back to sleep, and you can't possibly get up, or can you?

Well, I've got two guests today who have plumbed the depths of shut-eye.

Nick Little Hales is a foremost sleep coach, with years practice at getting

top athletes and sports stars, such as Cristiana Ronaldo, to sleep in a way that will keep them

lively on the pitch or on the field. And A.L. Kennedy is a novelist and comedian, most recently

author of Serious Sweet and a lifelong insomniac. Nick Little Littlehouse, let me start with you. Sleep is something

that we all do, but very few of us think about it or consider what we're actually doing. Why is it

that we actually sleep? Why is it we actually sleep? I think during any 24-hour period, there's mental and physical activity, and your body and brain, most

importantly, has to go into a period of recovery, and that recovery is moving into a particular

state where you're shutting down, basically. So a lot of the organs within your body are taking some respite.

So they can recover, they can restore, they can rejuvenate. And particularly, you know,

as a young child, infant, you will go into what are the most restorative stages like deep sleep,

non-REM and REM,

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