Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps

it. It's a long time ago, right? It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream

van plays music when it's out of ice cream. Listen to evil genius on BBC sounds. Thanks for downloading

the BBC Arts and Ideas podcast. The conversation you're about to hear picks up on themes inspired by the summer's BBC proms concerts.

If you're moved to listen to the music,

you can find every concert broadcast on Radio 3 and BBC Sounds.

Now over to the audience in the Imperial College Theatre

next to the Royal Albert Hall.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

Hello.

Starchy, stuffy and insufferably pious.

Well, at least traditionally, that's been the view of our Victorian forebears, as seen by seemingly

more libertine latter-day generations.

But that's a long way from the real story.

The Victorian certainly knew how to have a good time.

And on an evening when we're hearing work by Arthur Sullivan and Queen Victoria's favourite composer

Mendelssohn, we're going to find out where and how people put their knees up and their crinolins down

in those swinging 60s, the 1860s, of course.

We'll venture out as well to the football field and the tangier of the seaside.

As class distinctions broke down, Victorian Britain saw a new era of mass entertainment, And to discuss it, I have two guests who are spiritually wearing their wing collars, Catherine Hughes, historian and author of Victorians Unbound, and Lee Jackson, the author of Palaces of Pleasure, How the Victorians Invented Mass Entertainment. Now, Lee, I think one of the reasons you think that we tend to get it wrong

when it comes to the Victorian sense of fun

is that they always look so solemn in those photographs.

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