All right, sounds good. So James, going back to it. So I asked you when there was no sound, how is the feel knowing? You're both loved and admired by your core audience, but you also got a lot of people that hate what you're doing.

How's that feel?

It's humbling. I'm sort of, I don't really focus on the fear and I and I think that then one of the things I read about this book American muckraker is that is the sort of characteristics inherent in my colleagues and myself is that we're sort of very tunnel vision so we don't really

focus on those things. We know that they're there, we take rational steps to deal with them,

but we're kind of focused on what we do. Some tells me it doesn't bother you do. Some tells me you're

comfortable with opposition. I didn't ask for the opposition. Sometimes I don't

understand the opposition, but it's there and I don't let it affect our decision-making.

So would you call yourself a whistleblower or is it a muck-raker?

Muckraker is the term I think is best to find dust and some people don't know what that means it

means someone who publishes information that the powerful people do not

want published versus publishing information they give you to publish.

How different is that than a whistleblower?

Or is it as Mockraker more somebody who goes and recruits other whistleblowers?

Is Mockraker somebody that goes against the institution?

How would you explain the difference between the two?

Well I think a muckraker is a term, you know, historically from a hundred years ago,

Teddy Roosevelt coined it.

It could be all-encompassing.

The whistleblowers that we work with are not my employees, they don't pay them salaries.

We have people on full-time staff, but a muckraker is effectively anybody who can expose what's going on, the real truth, the hidden truth.

So it is an element of being a whistleblower. It is an element of somebody who wants to expose people who behind closed doors are playing essentially the game of what he call it it the puppet masters you're trying to

expose some of those guys yes we're trying to expose that with the powerful people in a

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