Welcome to the Creative Pen podcast. I'm Joanna Penn, thriller author and creative entrepreneur,

bringing you interviews, inspiration and information on writing, publishing options and marketing ideas for your book.

You can find the episode show notes, your free author blueprint and lots more information at

TheCreativepen.com. And that's Penn with a double N. And here's the show.

Hello creatives. I'm Duranna Penn. And this is episode number 711 of the podcast, and it is Saturday the 2nd of September

23 as I record this.

In today's show, I'm talking about producing visual high-quality books and thinking differently

with Holger-Neil's poll.

We talk about neurodiversity and how it's impacted Holger's life, as well as how he's

channeling those feelings into a children's book to help others, how we all mask behaviour in some

ways, which I certainly realise as we were talking, as well as the challenges of making his

incredibly high production value book, creating clarity, as well as the challenges of making his incredibly high production value book, creating clarity,

as well as six specific lessons for running a successful Kickstarter campaign,

because crowdfunding is so important if you want to make really high quality books

in terms of a premium physical product, which is what I want to do, as I talk about in the interview.

I want to make beautiful books. That's kind of going to be my focus for the next 15 years.

I've been doing this almost 15 years and I do have plans for sort of big post in December

on my 15th anniversary. But this is, you know, starting to talk about it.

I really want to focus on making beautiful products as well as, obviously, I focus on the words,

but as indie authors, I think we can now do incredibly beautiful products.

So I was really pleased to talk to Holger because he's a designer.

I was in his campaign. I really love his book and we talk all about it.

...