Joining us online is Trent Hornies and apologists for Catholic Answers, the host of the Council of Trent podcast and the author of nine books, including persuasive pro-life and answering atheism.

He was recently on the whatever podcast where he took part in a very long conversation and debate on abortion.

Trent, thanks much for joining the show.

Thanks for having me, Ben.

So let's talk about the sort of tactics that you use when you're debating the abortion issue

on places like the whatever podcast.

How do you prepare for that sort of thing?

Well, when I'm engaged in a debate or dialogue with someone else, I make sure to watch their previous debates, see what they believe about abortion.

So when I was engaging destiny on this question, I watched his previous debates, and I saw that he doesn't use the standard weak arguments

pro-choice people use.

Like what about women who are too poor or what about back alley abortions?

He doesn't even think bodily rights arguments work well.

It's my body, my choice.

He thinks those arguments are terrible.

He believes that a person begins to exist 20 weeks after conception

when you're conscious. But as I pointed out in the debate, there are many non-human animals

that are more conscious than human newborns. So why don't we give them a right to life? So destiny's

position ultimately collapses because it can't explain the unique value that

only human beings have. And whenever I try to have abortion discussions, I always get back to

that one question. What are the unborn? And if they're human beings, why don't we treat them

humanly? Yeah, I mean, the consciousness argument I've always found to be somewhat bizarre,

because again, consciousness is actually a continuum. I mean, the consciousness argument I've always found to be somewhat bizarre because, again, consciousness is actually a continuum.

...