This is John Bachelor. I spoke with Elon Berman of the American Foreign Policy Council about

a revelation he made to me that I was stunned by because I had not read it to my knowledge

here in the U.S. The Russian forces are building elaborate gulag-like prison camps, both in Ukraine,

the part they occupy at Eastern Donbass, and in Russia, to keep the POWs from the war,

as well as civilians they arrest or detain, who are suspect, and to keep them indefinitely.

There is no information that Elon has of visits by the International Red Cross or by other

transnational organizations to make sure of the safety and health of the people who are

being kept the POWs and the civilians. It's extraordinary also because it's in violation

of everything I understand, but the Geneva Convention for Conduct of War is Russia flagrant

laid, inviting enmity after the conflict ends, and why these gulag-like prison camps

to what end? Elon's explanation is a fascination but leaves me, the whole matter leaves me puzzled.

Hi, John. No, so this is a really big story, and it's one that's not getting in my estimation

nearly enough traction because I think it speaks the larger Russian strategy of what the

Kremlin is after in Ukraine because the war that's underway now, the war that's been underway

for a year and a half, is built around the assumption that Russians and Ukrainians are

one people, even though the Ukrainians object to that classification, and if the Ukrainians

resist, then they must be pacified. And so what you're seeing is, and this is all sort

of stemming from reports that the Associated Press has done based on documents that they've

received from the Russian government, credible documents, verified documents about the fact

that the Kremlin is establishing this network of prisons designed to house both Ukrainian

servicemen that have been captured, POWs, or, and additionally, Ukrainian civilians as

well. So what you're seeing is a long-term plan by the Kremlin to pacify the Ukrainian

...