So I'm going to jam a quote in here from Ignatiov is somewhat relevant, I think.

But it's, yeah, I think this will get me somewhere.

So there's a quote from how the Irish became white where he says,

whiteness, since white was not a physical description, but one term of a social relation,

which could not exist without its opposite, white man's work, quote

unquote, was simply work from which African Americans were excluded.

And I think that point is very interesting because, like, a lot of Americans' conception

of race comes from a real facet of this,

which is like,

which does have to do with like skin color and,

um,

the,

the sort of arguments about race being,

you know,

something that is about discrimination and how the cops treat you when they

pull you over and see you

and stuff. But a material kind of function of it does have to do with like these origins of

it being not defined by taking a bunch of like Caucasian people and going this color that they are

is the best. It's a nothingness. It is a it's a it's a it's a

social it's the great non-race and non-culture that everyone potentially can get

absorbed into. Irish story. It's kind of confusing in this light because the Irish people

are bucking they have white skin tone or whatever.

...