Hello and I'll be talking all about the Catalan conspiracy, very specific moment in time in ancient Rome in about 63, 62 AD, BC rather. And I'll be in conversation with Elizabeth Heatherin, how are you?

Hi, I thank thanks for having me on. Yeah, no, thanks for coming in, I appreciate it. So you've recently been

published in, what was the magazine you've published?

The Critic? Yeah, with a very good article about the Gracai brothers, something I've written about myself.

So you've got an interest in the ancient world and you've got

knowledge about the ancient world. So just before we start, how come? Why do you

like the ancient world? What is it that's fascinating to you? I particularly when it comes to the ancient world I'm quite fascinated with the Roman

Republic specifically I think there's a lot of patterns within the Republican world

and our own time today, particularly the corruption and the

consequences of that when it came to governmental life.

I'm quite interested in the circle of theory of the republic how you have this great

civilization that comes by overthrowing this tyrant of a monarch and it's then

built and virtue and men seem to place their country first

and seem to place virtue first what other than their self-interest and then after a series of wars with Carthage, the

woman becomes corrupted with wealth and it's that decline and fall that I'm most interested in. But I also, studying

the Roman Republic sort of brings me hope in the sense that the Republic doesn't die and fall

apart instead, something better comes from its

ashes which is the Roman Empire so it's like the secular theory of we're so over but

in the end we're so back.

You think something similar might happen with the United States,

the Great Republic of our age?

I think throughout history,

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