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Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

PREMIUM: "Trump, the Left, and the Future of Liberalism" with Yascha Mounk

Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Josh Szeps

Society & Culture, Education, Comedy Interviews, Comedy, Self-improvement

4.5905 Ratings

🗓️ 5 June 2025

⏱️ 35 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

While the showdown continues over Trump's military deployment against Los Angeles protestors, can we take heart from the resurgence of anti-Trump liberalism in Canada, Australia, the U.K. and Europe? Could the Democrats capture that energy? If the culture has moved on from "wokeness", then what's the next paradigm for the Left? How should we think about immigration, multiculturalism, infrastructure, abundance, Obama’s legacy, and big-vs-small government in the next chapter of American political life? And can it really be true that Mississippians are richer than Italians?

Yascha Mounk is one of Josh's favourite thinkers on how to hold liberal democracies together in a destabilising time.

Yascha will rejoin Josh on a Szeps Live Substack Livestream next Tuesday June 17th at 9pm ET to answer your questions about this conversation (11am Sydney-time on Wed 18th). Be sure you're subscribed to notifications here to stay abreast of all the additional content - it's free to watch (but comments are only for paid subscribers).

This interview was recorded before the Los Angeles protests. Enjoy this sanity-inducing chat about the state of liberalism in 2025 and beyond.

Watch this conversation on YouTube. And you’re missing out on our best ad-free content if you haven’t popped over to the Uncomfy Convos Substack page.

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Gide, humans.

0:03.8

Welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas.

0:06.7

Here's a dangerous idea for you.

0:09.2

You can have all the great policies in the world.

0:13.0

You can have a brilliant set of ideas about what you want to do if you get into government.

0:19.0

But if you lack a paradigm, a framework,

0:22.8

a narrative, a grand story which your policies inhabit, you'll never win over the voters,

0:29.4

you'll never win hearts and minds. And that that fundamentally is the pickle that the Democratic

0:33.7

Party finds itself in. It has been inside a paradigm of social justice. Before that,

0:39.6

it was inside a paradigm of economic justice and class warfare. And now it finds itself somewhat

0:45.3

listless, disrupted and disoriented by the Trump phenomenon. A lot of people on the American

0:50.2

left have taken heart from recent elections in Australia and Canada and the UK, noticing

0:56.0

that there's a sort of anti-Trump liberalism, a centre-leftism that is resurgent and wondering

1:01.5

if Democrats in the US can capture some of that energy. But can they do so without a real reckoning

1:08.1

about what Democrats have gotten wrong and what the paradigm of the future

1:12.0

ought to be. Any time I want to mull on questions like this, I turn to one of my favorite thinkers

1:17.5

about political liberalism and democracy in multi-ethnic modern societies, Yasha Meng. He has a

1:23.7

fabulous substack. I wanted to get his thoughts about the broader culture, the fate of wokeness,

1:28.6

what's the next paradigm for the left,

1:30.3

how we should think about immigration and multiculturalism and infrastructure and an abundance agenda,

1:36.8

and Nimbism versus Yimbism, and Obama's legacy,

1:40.9

and big versus small government in the next chapter of American political life. He's also

...

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