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But I do want to hear about your ongoing journey.

I was very happy to, A, to, you know, have done my part in editing, listening carefully, writing the summary of your Lincoln et al discussion, but also fine that I wasn't on there.

But I did want to ask you more about the Stephen Pinker.

So I had read my first Stephen Pinker when we did our Tomasello. There's a

1994 book, The Language Instinct, and I thought it was fine, but my overall impression sort of

in secondhand or what little of interviews I've heard with him, and, you know, he's another guy that

Sam Harris seems to like a lot, is that he is sort of in the scientific class, you know,

seems like very much sort of a lightweight as far as philosophers would take him.

And you guys had very little to say about him, but I was hoping that you would have given me

more information so that I wouldn't have to read him.

But like, you really just kind of brushed him aside in two sentences.

Did you have any more notes that you wanted to...

Any more points from him that you wanted to explain to me and the people?

Well, the reason I grabbed the Pinker was I literally was talking about this topic of kind of cultural

confluence of science and liberal democracy

and the relationship with my dad.

And he said, well, what you're saying is exactly what is in Pinker's book.

And so I picked it up and I read the first chapter and putting aside lightweight or not

lightweight, his summary and extolling the power and virtues of the Enlightenment, they did align with what I was interested in talking about and interested in having us engage with about the importance of our institutions and the importance of, I'm getting tired of the word norms

because it feels like it's been like deflated and we need a new word for the ways in which

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