Pragmatism and Principle: what is the role of morality in foreign policy?
Moral Maze
BBC
4.4 • 623 Ratings
🗓️ 12 March 2026
⏱️ 58 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Relations between Britain and the United States have rarely been described as simple, but they have long been called special. Yet in recent days that relationship has come under strain, after a sharp exchange between Donald Trump and Keir Starmer over the latest international crisis and Britain’s response to it. For more than eighty years the United Kingdom has defined its place in the world partly through its alliance with the United States. But moments like this raise uncomfortable questions about how Britain should act amid a shifting global order.
Some argue that foreign policy must ultimately be guided by national interest. In an uncertain world, they say, Britain cannot afford to jeopardise its most important alliance. Presidents come and go, but the strategic relationship between the two countries endures. In that view, the moral case is one of engagement, diplomacy, influence and the long-term security and prosperity of British citizens.
Others believe that alliances cannot come at the expense of values. The Canadian prime minister Mark Carney recently warned that the world has entered an “age of rupture”, where the rules and norms that once governed international relations are beginning to fray. When Britain disagrees with its closest ally – particularly on questions of war and peace – it has a responsibility to defend those principles, even at the risk of friction or isolation.
So in these extraordinary times, should foreign policy be guided primarily by principle or by pragmatic self-interest? What should the balance be between ethical idealism and strategic reality? Can interests and values truly align? And ultimately, what is the role of morality in foreign policy?
Chair: Michael Buerk Panel: Matthew Taylor, Giles Fraser, Ash Sarkar and Tim Stanley Witnesses: Jan Halper-Hayes, Peter Oborne, Christopher Hill, Jamie Gaskarth Producer: Dan Tierney Assistant Producer: Jay Unger Editor: Chloe Walker.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. |
| 0:05.6 | Hello, I've just nipped in before your BBC podcast starts to tell you all about |
| 0:09.4 | You're Dead to Me. We're the comedy podcast that takes history seriously. Also from the BBC |
| 0:13.9 | and presented by me, Greg Jenner. I should have told you that at the beginning. Sorry. |
| 0:17.9 | Anyway, like many other BBC podcasts, such as Desert Island Discs, Evil Genius, or In Our Time, your dead to me is available first on BBC Sounds, |
| 0:26.3 | a whole month earlier than anywhere else, in fact. So if you can't wait another day to hear |
| 0:31.2 | the very latest in history and loads of other good stuff, then listen first on BBC Sounds. |
| 0:36.6 | Good evening. Our relationship with America may be special, but it's no partnership of equals. |
| 0:41.6 | The US has almost as many soldiers in one of its hundreds of bases than the entire British |
| 0:47.0 | Army. A navy that once police the globe seemingly struggled to find a ship ready to go to war. |
| 0:54.2 | Britain's foreign policy has long rested on sticking close to Washington, |
| 0:57.9 | but the strategy of not crossing the current volatile incumbent of the White House |
| 1:01.9 | has come unstuck over the conflict in Iran. |
| 1:05.2 | The initial denial of British bases may have been predicated |
| 1:08.4 | on perhaps well-founded doubts about the legitimacy of the |
| 1:11.6 | attacks and the uncertainty of the long-term outcome, but it angered President Trump, and a |
| 1:17.2 | subsequent offer to help, if only defensively, was brushed aside with something approaching |
| 1:22.1 | contempt. |
| 1:23.7 | Meantime, the French Navy is protecting our base in Cyprus. It may have been raining this morning |
| 1:29.2 | in Trafalgar Square, but you could be forgiven for thinking it was Nelson weeping. It all raises |
| 1:35.2 | a basic question about how we should conduct ourselves internationally. Should our foreign policy be |
| 1:41.3 | driven by a calculation of our national self-interest, or should it be shaped by |
... |
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