When you're younger you see the battles immediately in front of you and you deal with those battles.

But you don't realize or expect it to be structural.

You think you're dealing with the immediate battle.

So this is an injustice and I'm going to do with this injustice

and I'm going to resolve it and that's going to be the end of that.

As you get older and you start to learn more things and take more things around you, you realize,

wow this is a structural injustice. So it's more than just this one battle that I've won.

We've got to win the war and that's a much bigger picture.

You are listening to made of human also known as the mole

a podcast hosted by Sophie Hagen

who is a Danish comedian

Trying to find out how to do life

But it turns out nobody knows.

This conversation was recorded on November 26th, 2020 over soon. Today's guest, Dawn Butler, only had 30 minutes to chat, which is very understandable because she's dawned butler.

She's a politician in the UK on the day

that the government announced how the country will function

after the lockdown ends in a week's time.

So naturally, her diary was full. So today's episode will be

shorter than usual, but when you consider how many conversations I've had that were much longer than an hour,

I will allow this this time around.

Don Butler is a British Labour Party politician, the first ever politician on this

podcast and she's an MP for Brent Central.

...