Hey, everyone, it's Rick. Before we get started, as we approach back to school,

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Welcome back to the Lincoln Project. I'm your host, Reed Galen. Today, I'm joined by Judd Legham,

the writer of the daily newsletter popular information. Before that, he founded Think Progress and

was research director on the 2008 Hillary Clinton presidential campaign. Judd, welcome back.

Thanks for having me, Reed. So, as I said, right before we started recording, I'd love

astronomical metaphors and politics. But I do believe that some candidates, even if they have no

chance of winning, do have a political gravitational effect on races. And I think they're

Ron DeSantis fits into that. So I want to get to that in a minute. But before we go south, I want

to go to the beltway inside the beltway and get your sense of someone who has worked in politics,

if not as long as I have, but pretty close, your sense of, if you agree with this idea,

why so many people in the political firmament in this country, Republicans, Democrats,

media, lobbyists, political bureaucrats, association people, why there isn't more,

frankly, hair on fire about the idea that someone like Donald Trump could return to office.

I think it's a good question. I wish I knew the answer. I think that there's a

lack of appreciation that based on the country's current political dynamics, anyone who gets a

major party nomination has a very legitimate chance to win. I think the polliner showing us all

that granite, we haven't had a situation where you've had one of those candidates facing three,

...