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This is on point. I'm Megna Chakrabardi.

Today on our main show, we talked with Richard Toeful.

He's founding general manager and former president of ProPublica.

Right now, he's also a distinguished visiting fellow at the Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health.

And he recently published an article in the Atlantic,

had lined how is America still this bad at talking about the pandemic?

It was a fascinating conversation that we had again on our main show.

But the question that Toeful is asking is really important one.

And we wanted to reach out to some other experts to see how they would answer it.

One of those experts is Dr. Celine Gounder.

She's senior fellow and editor at large for public health at Kaiser Health News.

She served on the Biden Harris Transition COVID-19 Advisory Board.

And when we talked to her, she said one of the reasons why we're this bad at talking about the

pandemic is that political division in this country coincided with the pandemic.

And that put us in a precarious position to respond to COVID.

I think what had the most detrimental impact was the fact that COVID hit

...