This is Science Friday. I'm musician and writer, Dessa, filling in for Auroflato.

Later in the hour, we're going to talk about technical ableism

and how those seemingly inspirational videos about scientific breakthroughs

might be muddying the real stories of disability technology.

But earlier this month, an FDA panel agreed that a common

decongestant ingredient, Fennel Efren, which is found in drugs like

Deutrophed and Nyquil, doesn't work. And this pains me as a Nyquil fan, fam.

While the panel agreed that Fennel Efren is in dangerous,

it doesn't work any better than a placebo.

Which made us wonder how well do placebos work?

And how come they work even when people know they're getting a placebo?

Here to talk more about the current landscape of placebo research is my guest,

Ted J. Capchuk, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School

and director of placebo studies and therapeutic encounter

at Beth Israel Deakin's Medical Center. Welcome to Science Friday.

Thanks for having me.

Okay, can I ask the FDA panel's pronouncement on the Fennel Efren.

The objection was that this substance wasn't working any better than a placebo.

How did you respond when you first heard that news break?

When I heard that, the question is how did they know there was a placebo effect?

The data that is really coming from two very good randomized control trials

that tested Fennel Efren versus a placebo.

...