You're about to listen to a BBC podcast and I'd like to tell you a bit about the

podcast I work on. I'm Dan Clark and I commissioned factual podcasts at the BBC.

It's a massive area but I'd sum it up as stories to help us make sense of the forces shaping the world.

What podcasting does is give us the space and the time to take brilliant BBC journalism

and tell amazing compelling stories that really get behind the headlines.

And what I get really excited about is when we find a way of drawing you into a subject

you might not even have thought you were interested in.

Whether it's investigations, science, tech, politics, culture, true crime, the environment,

you can always discover more with a podcast on BBC Sounds.

He wasn't an inventor, he wasn't a code writer and he wasn't a designer.

But he was a visionary and he saw things and he did things differently.

Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs, and the

the troublemakers, the round pegs and the square holes, the ones who see things differently.

Steve Jobs, speaking in 1997, the founder of the company Apple, the man who was widely loved and loathed by some

is this week's great life. Making the case for him is my guest Peter Williams, the

founder and chief executive of Jack Wills, the British clothing brand.

Peter, what is it about Steve Jobs? Do you see in him qualities, some kind of genius that many don't have and that you particularly admire.

He was fundamentally flawed from a personality perspective in the sense that he seemed to be relatively

dysfunctional, but in terms of his great asset, his great strength was his extraordinary vision.

He had no interest in market research because it was by definition retrospective looking.

He claimed that there was no point in asking the customer what they wanted because they didn't know.

And that they should create a product that the customer didn't even know they needed.

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