This is somewhat of a bonus episode, only being released on the Drachma Institute on December 1st, 2020.

It's with Peter Gray, an evolutionary psychologist, and we talk about the concept of unschooling

when it comes to child rearing slash education.

I'm joined by my colleague Peter Glinos, and there may be sound effects at different points

because, as mentioned,

this was released in 2020 when the Drakma Institute was experimenting with podcasts.

No sponsors for this episode.

Just leave a written review on whichever platform you're listening to this on as it greatly aids distribution.

Thank you and enjoy. Thank you and enjoy.

On that note, we will begin. So, Peter, our question for, our first question for you is, the Christian anarchist, Yvonne

Illich, believed that schools were ultimately lacking.

In his book, Deschooling Society, he proposed the creation of broad-based learning webs in their place. Do you feel that schools can ultimately be reformed,

or is there another solution, such as deschooling, which is the answer?

Good question. I don't think schools, as we have them them today can be reformed, not in the way that I would look for.

Certainly not in the way that Illich would have wanted either. They can't be reformed for a number of reasons.

One is that there's just way too much vested interest in how they are operating. And the other is that

reform can't occur gradually. The kind of reform I'm looking for can't occur gradually. It has to be a shift. It has to be a turning upside down of what we've got. You can't just change one little bit of it

and expect it to work. There is a long history. As long as we've had compulsory, state-sponsored

compulsory schooling, there have always been reformers. And some of the reformers want to liberalize the education.

They want to make it a little bit more playful, a little bit more choice, and so on and so

forth.

Other reformers want to go the other direction.

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