Pete Wehner on Pope Leo, Trump, and Protestant America
Good Faith
Good Faith
4.8 • 1.9K Ratings
🗓️ 25 June 2026
⏱️ 43 minutes
🔗️ Recording | Apple Podcasts | RSS
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Summary
How Are Protestants Navigating a Moral and Spiritual Vacuum in Evangelicalism?
Host Curtis Chang talks with former White House staffer and Atlantic columnist Pete Wehner about why Pope Leo XIV is resonating with Protestants and evangelicals despite historic theological divides. Together, they explore the Pope's moral leadership while contrasting his dignified, intellectually grounded public witness with Donald Trump's increasingly erratic influence on evangelical political culture. The conversation examines a perceived spiritual leadership vacuum within Protestantism and calls pastors, congregations, and followers of Jesus to cultivate beauty, goodness, and truth as a long-term path toward renewing Christian public witness.
00:34 - Introduction to Pope Leo XIV's Influence
02:29 - Is There a Protestant Appreciation for Catholicism?
03:59 - What Is This Pope's Impact on Public Theology?
06:06 - Papal Influence in Past Administrations
11:19 - The Collapse of Evangelical Public Theology
14:18 - Can Protestants Still Exert Moral Influence?
21:16 - The "Mad King" and Trump's Cognitive Decline
28:42 - What Can Pastors Do?
32:00 - The Importance of Beauty, Goodness, and Truth
37:08 - What Is The Pope's Transcendent Influence?
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Referenced in the Episode:
- Pete Wehner's article "The American Pope vs. the American President"
- Pete Wehner's article "The Apotheosis of Donald Trump"
- Pope Leo XIV's Encyclical Letter: Magnifica Humanitas
- The Madness of King George (YouTube free with ads)
- David Bentley Hart's The Beauty of the Infinite
- Wordsworth's The Prelude, Book 14
- Good Faith's course: The After Party
Scriptures Referenced:
- 1 Timothy 3 (ESV)
- Titus 1 (ESV)
Protestant and Catholic Leaders Referenced:
- Pope John Paul II
- Pope Benedict XVI
- Pope Francis
- Reinhold Niebuhr
- C.S. Lewis
- Billy Graham
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer
- John Stott
- Karl Barth
- Oliver O'Donovan
- Rowan Williams
- Dr. Tim Keller
More from Pete Wehner:
- Pete Wehner's articles at The Atlantic
- Pete Wehner's opinion pieces at The New York Times
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The transcendental, the true, the good, the beautiful. |
| 0:04.0 | I mean, those things exist through all time. |
| 0:06.0 | They're not subject to referendum. |
| 0:08.0 | What we do need is more people who love the good, the true, and the beautiful, |
| 0:12.0 | and can help other people come to love them too. |
| 0:15.0 | And it's not coercive. |
| 0:16.0 | It's persuasive. |
| 0:17.0 | It's the power of example. |
| 0:19.0 | It's the power of a human life. |
| 0:41.3 | Welcome to the Good Faith podcast where friends who follow Jesus help each other make sense of the world. I'm your host Curtis Chang. This podcast is produced by a nonpartisan 501C3 organization. |
| 0:48.3 | The Pope is having himself quite a moment. Pope Leo the 14th has only been in his position for about a year, |
| 0:57.4 | and in that short period, he has influenced the public conversation more than some previous |
| 1:03.7 | popes have done in their entire tenures. One fascinating aspect of Pope Leo the 14th public engagement is his outsized impact on Protestants. |
| 1:17.5 | Protestants originated out of a historic rejection of papal authority, and now Protestants like me are increasingly looking to him for guidance and inspiration, especially in the political realm. |
| 1:32.5 | Why is this happening? What does it say about Protestants and our current political moment? |
| 1:40.0 | These questions sparked a conversation with my friend Pete Wainer, columnist with the Atlantic and the New York Times and frequent guest on good faith. |
| 1:50.1 | If you are a Protestant or have some other religious affiliation, our conversation about the Pope's unique role will reveal to you important insights into today's political moment, including |
| 2:04.1 | the need to address the quite obvious cognitive decline of our current president. |
| 2:10.9 | If you are a Catholic, I think you also will benefit from hearing two admiring Protestants, |
| 2:16.7 | hopefully helping you grasp how your spiritual |
| 2:20.1 | leader is having an impact. Here's my conversation with Pete. Pete, welcome back to the Good Faith |
| 2:28.8 | podcast. It's great to be with you, Curtis. It's always an interesting and rich conversation, |
... |
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