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The Lawfare Podcast

Pete Strzok on Declining FISAs and Human Source Handling

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

History, Military, International Relations, Government, Constitutional Law, News, International Law, Current Events, Politics, Rule Of Law, Law, Foreign Policy, Diplomacy, National Security, Intelligence, Terrorism

4.76.4K Ratings

🗓️ 25 October 2021

⏱️ 61 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Pete Strzok is a former counter-intelligence official at the FBI. He is the author most recently of an article in Lawfare entitled, “The Sussmann Indictment, Human Source Handling, and the FBI’s Declining FISA Numbers.” It's an article that makes an interesting connection between a sentence in the indictment of Democratic lawyer Michael Sussmann and some data on FISA applications released by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. They may seem unconnected, but Strzok argues that there may be a deep connection between the two, and he sat down with Benjamin Wittes to discuss it. They talked about the anomaly of the Sussmann indictment; about how it was the tip of a very large iceberg of investigations of officials, agents and analysts who worked on the Crossfire Hurricane investigation; and about the shocking decrease in the number of FISA orders issued over the length of the Trump presidency. 

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Transcript

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0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair

0:07.2

podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair.

0:14.7

That's patreon.com slash LawFair.

0:18.2

Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair

0:25.6

no bull and the aftermath.

0:55.6

I see a constant or increasing state of the threat.

1:12.6

I see a constant or increasing availability of investigative resources and I see a precipitous

1:18.6

drop in sophisticated investigative activity and I can't explain that because if you had

1:26.3

and were able to do it throughout 13, 14, 15, 16, why aren't you doing it now?

1:34.2

I'm Benjamin Wittes and this is the LawFair podcast October 25th, 2021.

1:41.4

Keith Struck is a former counterintelligence official at the FBI.

1:47.2

He is the author most recently of an article in LawFair entitled the Susman indictment

1:54.8

human source handling and the FBI's declining fies and numbers.

2:00.3

It's an article that makes an interesting connection between a sentence in the indictment

2:06.3

of Democratic lawyer Michael Susman and some data on FISA applications released by the

2:14.5

office of the director of national intelligence.

2:18.3

They may seem unconnected but Struck argues in my judgment persuasively that there may

2:23.8

be a deep connection between the two and he joined me in the virtual jungle studio

2:30.5

to talk about it.

2:32.4

We talked about the anomaly of the Susman indictment, we talked about how it was the tip

2:38.4

of a very large iceberg of investigations of officials, agents, analysts who worked

2:46.6

on the crossfire hurricane investigation and we talked about the shocking decrease in

...

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