You know what's crazy? So I feel like I come from both worlds of what you guys are because like I'm a hustler at heart who's like really never had a job just always hustling selling doing something.

But then you know I have an economics degree, like I

understand the data and I would say I might have like an engineering mind to

piece things together and solve problems and things. And so when I got started flipping houses all I ever did was just

network and hustle, MLS wholesalers, realtors all all this stuff.

And then when I started doing direct-to-seller marketing, I never ran Facebook ads or anything,

but I got cold callers.

And you know what I did?

I didn't want to hire VAs, so I hired Americans. And I was paying them like 1500 bucks a month you know to go

dial and make cold calls and then they got commissions if they closed but do the

funniest thing was this was in 2018. I just pulled a random

list and back then there wasn't like all this YouTube and stuff out there teaching people

how to do stuff. So I was like I don't know I'll just pull this and

then I was having them hand dial from their phone like I didn't think to get a

or nothing no CRM no dialer nothing just like straight from their iPhone and surprisingly we got deals even though

was so inefficient so dumb whatever and the reason I tell the story is

because you don't have to be perfect to get deals.

You know, we were by no means perfect.

And I did 150 deals that year doing that, MLS, wholesalers, like just so inefficient and dumb. And today there's no excuse for not like being efficient and doing it the right way. Like you can get VA's there's software

there's agencies there's coaching there's all these things to do it the right way

information is out there so yeah you know it's just funny to like see everyone's progression.

At what point did you hire your first VA?

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