This guest has sold so far over 100 million copies of his books.

He's a thriller writer, he's a suspense writer, his latest book, The Ghost Orchid and Alex

Delaware novel just came out, Jonathan Kellerman, and I have to say this book was riveting from the beginning to the end you don't have to read any of his prior books to get completely what's happening

it's about a psychologist who also likes to solve crimes.

And Jonathan Kellerman himself was a psychologist

at a whole career in that that he left behind

when he started writing.

So we talk about everything from

how to write a thriller to his career and the hard stuff along the way

and so much more great conversation, great book. Here's Jonathan Kellerman. average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is the living room background there.

That's a real background, right?

That's my office.

Wow, that is a great office.

That's actually my office. When we bought the house I I built myself a nice office.

I have an okay office but my books are a mess like I've got a work like it really looks professional when you have like a bookcase like that behind you

I mean even though like some of those books like the brown books are just like antiques right they're not

You actually the bathroom and read those books this is

going to sound terrible but every book you see is a book is a book or a

translation of a book that I've written these are all all my books because I've written 60 books. These are all and

the publishers used to give me leatherbound copies when a book came out. Now they've cheaped

out because that's publishing now.

So uh...

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