From the opinion pages of the Wall Street Journal, this is Free Expression with Jerry Baker.

Hello and welcome to Free Expression. I'm Jerry Baker from the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

I'm delighted you're joining us this week. If you're not already a subscriber, please do sign up wherever you get your podcasts.

This week, Pence for president.

On the day his former boss is arraigned in federal court, I'm sitting down with former

Vice President Mike Pence to discuss his bid for the presidency, the state of the Republican Party,

and of course, Donald Trump. Last week, Pence launched his campaign for the GOP nomination

in next year's presidential

primary with a stinging assault on the man he served loyally for four years until their administration

ended in the chaos and ignominy of January 6, 2021. Former Vice President told the crowd at his

Iowa rally that on that day, Trump, quote, demanded that I

choose between him and the Constitution. Now voters will be faced with the same choice. I chose the

Constitution and I always will. At the same time, of course, Pence is running in part on the record

of the Trump administration. Tax cuts and economic growth, tough measures against

illegal immigration, and America-first foreign policy, especially taking on China. But of course,

Pence wants to convey his own brand of conservatism to Republican voters too, and distinguish himself

from the growing Republican field. But for now, of course, the party's politics, and indeed the

nations, are consumed with the spectacle of the first former president ever to be arraigned on

federal charges. Trump was charged today with 37 counts, alleging the unlawful retention of

defense and national security documents, as well as obstructing the government's investigation.

So inevitably, the specter of the former president will haunt Mike Pence's campaign. And former Vice President Mike Pence joins me now. Mr. Pence, thanks very much for joining free expression. Oh, you bet, Jerry. Thanks for having me on. You launched our campaign for president last week, and I want to get into a lot of the topics and a lot of the message and the policies, the issues you want to campaign on. But we're recording this Tuesday afternoon in the last hour or so. Your former boss, the former President Donald Trump,

has been arraigned on federal charges. You've had a chance now to read the indictment that

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