Hey, this is Paris. I hope you enjoyed the Data Vampire series that we did back in October.

It's had a fantastic response. And for that series, I spoke to a bunch of experts. And now we're

releasing the full-length versions of those interviews for our supporters over on patreon.com.

And I wanted to give you a preview of what those interviews sound like. So you can consider whether to go to patreon.com slash tech won't save us,

become a supporter yourself so you can tune in to the full-length interviews.

So you can learn even more about the important topics that we dug into in that special series.

So enjoy this clip from my interview with Ali al-Khqatib.

There's been a lot of talk in the past year and a half about what effective regulation of AI is going to look like or should look like,

you know, a lot of debate about those things, a lot of CEOs speaking out and saying what that should look like, and unfortunately,

lawmakers listening to them as though they have the answers. But you recently wrote an essay about

destroying AI, you know, taking one step further than that than just kind of passing some

regulations to try to, you know, reduce the worst aspects of what

these AI systems can do. What brought you to the point to write something like that and to take

that further step? Yeah, sorry. So I've been studying human computer interaction for about 10 years,

started a PhD program 10 years ago today, actually, or close to today. I mean, I had been spending

a long time thinking about how to develop human-centered

systems and particularly writing papers that were trying to bring ideas from the social

sciences about power, about oppression, about violence, into understanding how algorithmic systems

can manifest these kinds of harms and trying to encourage people to think

along those kinds of lines to understand and then to design consequential algorithmic

systems in various different ways. And part of my frustration was coming from the feeling that

HCI was sort of not picking up some of that,

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