Hello and welcome to today's independent travel podcast with me Simon Calder. It's Wednesday the 24th of December, Christmas Eve.

And time for the third and final part of my conversation with Paul Griffith.

He is the chief executive of Dubai airports and one of his airports,, DXB, or Dubai International, is the

busiest in the world for international travellers. And so it's well worth listening to his thoughts.

Today, Paul is offering advice to the UK on airport expansion, a topic that's been widely discussed this year,

not least by the Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander.

Today is a step forward for UK aviation and infrastructure,

supporting growth in the economy and enabling a modern, efficient transport system that harnesses

international investment, boosts connectivity and strengthens UK competitiveness.

We are committed to making a decision on a third runway at Heathrow within this Parliament,

and we are clear on our ambition to see flights taking off on a new runway in 2035.

That's the Transport Secretary of Dressing Parliament in October about the government's plans for expansion at Heathrow.

Ministers have also given a green light to a second runway at Gatwick Airport, where Paul Griffiths was the boss

before Dubai tempted him away. But as Heidi Alexander explained in Parliament, there's lots of

concern about the global and local environmental impact of aviation.

Extra staff and passengers must be able to get to and from the airport

without turning the M4 and the M25 into Europe's largest car park.

Crucially, the expansion must align with our legal, environmental and climate commitments.

So what to do? Well, Paul Griffiths

has some friendly advice about how to advance British aviation. First, I asked him if the UK is doing

enough to secure the future. Well, I don't think any continent on the planet is doing enough to further the cause of aviation.

And, you know, I'm very vocal on the subject of sustainability and how sustainable aviation fuel

...