This is exactly right.

I'm Kate Winkler-Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the last 25 years writing about true crime.

And I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator whose work some of America's most complicated cases

and solve them.

Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most compelling true crimes.

And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring new insights to old mysteries.

Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime cases through a 21st century lens.

Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. This is buried bones. Hey, Paul. Hey, Kate. How are you? I'm doing well. How about you? I'm doing good. It's getting warm here, so it gets a little warm in this office.

It does. I think we've all heard about that, the man cave slash, I'm glad you're calling it in an office now. I think it was usually just your man cave. But for video, it's a little different, right?

Nope, that's absolutely it. I'm hoping not to start sweating. I know, me too. I had to turn my

little air conditioner off in the cottage. It's going to be steamy in here pretty soon, but I'll

just talk faster. No big deal. All right. I'll try to keep up. So I've been working on some stress relief stuff. And I know you do a lot of outdoor stuff and I do too.

My mom is a huge gardener. And so I sort of started picking up gardening. And I enjoy it. Do you do any

planting or you and your wife do any kind of vegetables or anything out there? Well, living in

California, I did a lot of not so much gardening, but a lot of landscaping.

I installed, you know, multiple backyards from the sprinkler system to grading to building,

retaining walls and planting all the various, you know, types of trees and shrubs and stuff.

I did try at one point to have a little vegetable garden where I lived. I mean, it gets so hot, you know,

it just didn't really work out very well. And then now here in Colorado, you really can't,

where I live, you know, if you plant anything, you're going to attract the deer or you're going

to attract the bears. And so it's just like, no, I'll just keep the natural, you know,

plants and stuff around the house. Yeah, I understand that. We have tons and tons of loads of

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