visioning, so to speak, figuring out what I wanted, like, you know, coming back to like a certain

number amount that I wanted my business to make. And for a little while, I just kind of was like,

why is that, like, when I dug deep enough, it was like, there really was no meaning to that number

outside of I wanted to hit it because I think it's challenging.

Yeah.

And I actually realized, that's an okay enough reason.

I'm going to stop beating myself up.

Like, it's not the only factor that I'm using to define, you know, what I want.

You're listening to a conversation with my good buddy Greg Hickman.

He's the founder and CEO of Systemly, System.L.Y.

And Greg teaches digital agencies and service providers how to productize and scale their business with predictable systems.

And I've known Greg now for, geez, over, no, yeah, six years now. I think about how long

I've known Greg. And we first met at a conference blog world, New Media Expo, as it used to be

called, in Vegas back in 2013.

This was before I even had an online business.

This was that first year after I left corporate, and I had no idea what I was doing.

So I've gotten to know Greg really well.

He's one of my good buddies.

We've been in masterminds together.

And a couple months ago, he wrote on his Facebook page this post and I want to read

just a few lines of it because in this interview here today I do read the entire thing but I read

it and I was like I just I texted and was like dude got to have you on the podcast to talk about

...